Your Thoughts on Prayer…

May 17, 2010 in Christian Life with 20 Comments

I’ve been very upfront about my own personal struggle with prayer. Much of it is born out of, for so long, seeing God with deist eyes. Coming to see that prayer actually moves the Person of God, though, and not just nature, changes everything.  But with the change in how I see God, comes also a change in how I see the text of God’s Word. No longer can I just pass over verses, ignoring difficult key elements, because my view of God warrants my not having to address it.

One key element to several passages on prayer have been ones I’ve side-stepped over the years. So I ask…What do you think it means to pray “in the Spirit” (Ephesians 6:18; Jude 20)?

  • http://www.raymondharris.com Raymond Harris

    You make a great pondering point.

    To answer the question w/o answering the question, it depends on how one defines “in the spirit” which is going to be solely based on a person’s theological interpretation of God.

    If a person has a Deist (what I call a Cessationist view) View – God is but does not work actively in the lives of people, then God will not actively work. If a person has a Continuationist view praying “in the spirit” means something much different. Some might even view “in the spirit” as “in tongues”.

    What I know is that God is spirit (John 4.22) and those that worship and pray must learn to do spiritually. The spiritual part of ourselves is something that the carnal/fleshly man does not readily comprehend.

    Perhaps this thought that just entered my head with help. Praying “in the spirit” seems to be where one has a face-to-face open dialogue with God; not “in the spirit” would be like talking with God as if he is over the horizon barely able to hear us.

    • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ [Blocked by CFC] douglasryoung.net

      Why am I not surprised that you would respond like this Raymond? LOL I think John 4 has something to do with it, as it would relate to John 3:3-5 and being born “of” the Spirit.

      I remember, back in the day, we would always argue about “how” the Spirit dwelt in the Christian, but I never recall ever trying to wrap our minds around, much less debate, how we dwelt in the Divine. Sort of ironic, huh?

      • http://www.raymondharris.com Raymond Harris

        Glad I could make you laugh. Sorry that I did not surprise you. ;-)

        I read through the comments down through Sandra Wright before I posted my reply, and I must say that I am impressed by much. And Doug you are right about our previous argumentation strategies, I am personally ashamed to learn that I knew so little, yet believed I had a handle on “the truth”. I am growing and maturing in ways I never imagined. So let’s talk about being in the Divine for a moment or two.

        Consider John’s use of the phrase “in the spirit” in Revelation (1.10, 4.2, 17.3 and 21.10, *KJV) but I really want to focus on being “carried away in the spirit”.

        I, too, believe that God can do anything He wants but sometimes I really don’t want His answer because of what it will require of me. So to really be “in the spirit” is one “carried away” into another realm of reality? The spirit man inside myself wants to believe this is to be the case. Can you imagine the possibilities of seeing the things of the heavenlies? I do not ask that out of just “hope” and I ask it not as a rhetorical question. The Hebraic People obviously believed that “in the spirit” was more than “truth” it was another fabulous part of our “spiritual” existence.

        Genesis fifteen is the chronicle of the Abram asking God to verify himself, this is a prayer in which during the night Abram sees a vision of God passing between the pieces of divided meat. This is “in the spirit” yet how many of us are ready for that kind of experience and answer to our prayer?

        “In the spirit” seems to obviously mean a great deal more than the attention we give it. While the phrase “on the Lord’s day” could be further clarified as part of being “in the spirit”, I will argue that Abram seeing a manifestation of God was a Lord’s Day event, because God – YHWH (the LORD), revealed himself to his servant, Abram.

        I know what I have been taught, but to really be “in the spirit” requires us to stretch our intellect to accept the possibility that our spirit can “leave” our body and “experience” a “spiritual truth” that reason cannot easily be persuaded to accept. Are we ready for this?

        Just food for thought.

        Blessings

        *KJV, by the way, is simply the version I use for searches, I am not saddled to it as “The Authorized Version”; personally, I prefer the “heretical” translations of “The Scriptures,” “The Complete Jewish,” “The Lamsa,” and “The Aramaic English New Testament”.

  • Bryan

    I’m not sure I can tackle the passage on praying in The Spirit, but I do have some thoughts on prayer. The problems I see with prayer in my own life boils down to my lack of a prayer life. This stems from several things, the most prevalent being the fact that I sometimes downplay situations and make them out to be less than they really are. I find myself as probably many Christians are doing and only pray to God about the “big” things in my life that are important to me, when in reality I should pray without ceasing. I also find myself spending more time talking to God in prayer and not enough listening to His reply when I read Scripture. Lastly, I sometimes am not very hopeful when I pray. I don’t always pray with the mentality that God will answer in the ways I want. But just because He doesn’t answer in the ways I expect or directly give what I plead for does not mean He does not answer. Thats been a big struggle for me is seeing how God answers when I dont get the answer I expect. Love you man, hope this helps!

    • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

      I get you Bryan. It’s similar to the disciples praying for Peter in prison in Acts 12. When God delivers him, and he shows up, they think Rhoda is crazy for saying Peter’s out. Go figure, huh? Not all that different from me in many respects.

  • James Jones

    I wonder if it means pray while in communion with the Spirit. Galatians 5:25 has been on my mind lately. By praying in the Spirit, does it mean my mind is on His ways instead of selfish things (James 4:3)?

    I’ll be honest, I have limited my prayers because I don’t want to be disappointed. I have a deep belief in what He can do, but I am just afraid of being let down. It is hard for me to believe I am praying in the Spirit with that kind of mindset.

  • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

    Yeah James. It strikes at the heart, though, of what you say “communion” is. I am certain not everyone is so inclined to see it the same way. Of course, I no longer agree with my old self on that subject, so I am a real mess. ;>}

  • Sandra Wright

    My thoughts from these scriptures:
    Romans 8:26 helps make sense of Jude 20. “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered.”

    The Spirit mentioned in Jude 20 and Ephesians 6:18 is talking about the Holy Spirit one of the three parts of the Godhead: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three parts are one in the same. So, when we pray in the name of Jesus we are praying in the Spirit. When we pray in this way, intercession is made on our behalf so that our prayers can be heard and answered by God.

    We should not lose heart, but be watching and waiting for our prayers to be answered. Luke 18:1 says, “Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart.” Ephesians 6:18 mentions being watchful with perseverance, too.

  • Mary Harris

    I would like to chime in with my thoughts…First, there are a lot of “in the spirit”s in the KJV: walk in the spirit, live in the spirit, worship in the spirit, love in the spirit, etc. After looking at various versions, CJB, Scriptures, ESV, Lamsa, etc. I think in most instances it would make more sense to us if it read “through” or “by” the spirit. And some of the versions had just that. The following example in Mat was also translated “through the spirit” and “inspired by the spirit.”

    Mat 22:43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

    So (to me), if we are to pray “through” or “by” the spirit, we would be using the spirit in order to pray.

    I believe that 1 Cor 14.2 explains “pray in the spirit” as good as I can understand. By speaking in tongues “in the spirit he speaketh mysteries”.

    1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (KJV)
    or
    1Co 14:2 For someone speaking in a tongue is not speaking to people but to God, because no one can understand, since he is uttering mysteries in the power of the Spirit. (CJB)

    In order to speak in tongues, do we have to have the Holy Spirit in us? If so, we have only to ask! :)

    Luk 11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

  • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

    Thank you Sandra!
    Mary…Glad you chimed in. You have brought to the surface similar thoughts to mine as they relate to the prepositions “in,” “through,” and “by.” I saw the meaning for “in” you convey in your comment, first, in passages oriented around being “in Christ.” Contextually, I was finding it difficult to distinguish “in Christ” from “by Christ.” 2 Corinthians 3:18 was the principle passage that caused me to revisit the instances where “in Christ” bears connection with functioning “through” or “by Christ.” Moreover, what Paul does is make no distinction between by Christ and by the Spirit, because the Lord “is the Spirit.” Your citations of other translations seem to substantiate the thought. Believe it or not, I hadn’t even considered how other translations might have rendered the prepositions under consideration. But they do indicate something noteworthy, to be sure.

    Thank you for your contribution to this discussion!

  • Mary Harris

    Wow! I hadn’t noticed that the two terms “by Christ” and “by the Spirit” could be equivalent. In fact, I didn’t think it could be the case, so I checked it out, and according to what I read in Rom 8.9 they do appear to be interchangeable.

    Thanks for that info!

    btw-I just came across more verses: 1 Cor 14:14-15 For if I am praying in a tongue, my spirit is praying, but my understanding is without fruit. What then is it? I shall pray with the spirit, and I shall also pray with the understanding. I shall sing with the spirit, and I shall also sing with the understanding.

    These verses make me think that Paul is saying that praying with or in the spirit means it will not be understandable (praying in tongues?), because he contrasts it with praying with the understanding…and the same for singing with the spirit vs singing with the understanding. (Singing in tongues?) We appear to be instructed to do both.

    Just a thought…I think I’m done now. :)

    • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

      Mary…Too, one of the key phrases that got the motor of my mind going was how Jesus taught that whatever the disciples would do “in” His “Name,” it would be done for them. Of course, this isn’t a magical formula for the ending of a prayer, but rather is a posture of life in the power of the resurrected Christ.

      In Acts 3, Jesus heals a man at the Beautiful gate. He says, “In the name of Jesus get up…” I think “in,” “by,” and “through” are all synonymous for the unifying presence of man and the divine (John 17).

  • http://www.spiritualsweat.blogspot.com Trent Tanaro

    Great thought Bro,
    The key is simplicity, praying in the Spirit is the same as being in His presence. Living in His presence. Being in tune with His existence, there are no requests, adorations, praises, or anything, just you and His presence, one thats realized we lay out our requests and other petitions before him.
    Too many times we are throwing out requests, adorations, praises before we even recognize His presence….it’s a journey and a struggle all in one..lol…

    • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

      I figured you would have something to say about this matter. Thanks bro!

  • Joey Cope

    Doug,
    I struggle with my attitude toward prayer, too. Several of your commentators have touched on what brings me back to a restful place. Since the Spirit is a gift, provided to us as a friend, a comforter, and guide, I find myself in my anxious prayer life seeking out the Spirit’s presence. I have learned that if I release my mind to the Spirit, I am opening myself to the heart of God. In that moment, my concerns about what happens in this life dissolve as I glimpse just a tiny portion of God. Frankly, it’s too much for my human abilities to grasp — except when I view it through the lens of Jesus. So for me, a simple mind, praying in the Spirit means to find assurance in letting go of my own selfish ambition.

    • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

      Dr. Cope…I really appreciate what you, “a simple mind,” has to say. I find it comforting that you have similar frustrations with prayer.

      I have found that my faith is forged by trusting in the so many things that is “too much for my human abilities to grasp.” I’ve grown to accept what I cannot necessarily explain or sufficiently understand. That is a wonderful place to be in my book.

      Thanks for stopping by. I am glad that you are going to be blogging more. I love the hints of humor in your writing. You, my friend, are a funny man. You make the CRR program a joy to experience.

  • http://joshlinton.net Josh Linton

    Doug,

    It sounds like you’ve battled the sanctimonious schizophrenic.

    The Spirit brings life. God lives. Life enables us to chat with him, to question him, to praise him, to doubt him, to live in relationship with him. The Spirit opens our eyes to the presence of Jesus in the other (Matthew 25). New eyes. New hearts. New life. Prayer makes sense.

    Of course…that’s easy to write.

    • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

      Josh…Sanctimonious Schizophrenic…Classic bro. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

  • http://bradpalmore.com Brad Palmore

    Doug,

    I, too, have struggled with prayer. I’ve blamed it on various things: being mechanically minded, being content with whatever God wills for me to have, etc. Studying through Romans this time has pulled something together for me that I didn’t think about before.

    Warning, this may be way out there.

    Romans 5:5 reads “And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us” (NIV).

    This may be a bit of a stretch, but I was struck by the imagery involved in this. We receive an indwelling of the Spirit through our faith/immersion and become a part of a spiritual trinity of sorts (commune with God and Christ through our possession of the Spirit). There are many blessings associated with the Spirit, one of which is that God pours his love into us through the Spirit.

    The question that I ask is “How is it possible for the love of God to pour into us if we don’t spend the time in communion with Him through prayer?” Maybe the biggest benefits of prayer aren’t the verbal but are rather the spiritual things occurring behind the scenes. Is there another vehicle by which we can commune with God other than prayer? When we don’t spend time in prayer, does the spirit within us atrophy and wither? Is it only be reconnecting to the source that the love of God can flow through the Spirit and into us?

    More questions than answers, I’m afraid. It’s just where I am on the issue at the moment.

  • http://theobloggers.com/members/douglasryoung/ douglasryoung.net

    I totally get what you are saying, Brad. I’ve even wondered if the formulaic jargon that so often accompanies prayer isn’t doing the same thing to us as not praying. I’ve been forced to admit that much of what I’ve offered as prayer have been words devoid of meaning. To get away from it, I’ve begun praying the Psalms. Man, they resonate inside.

    I think your offering of Romans 5:5 shows just how much is brought into our fusion with the divine, Spirit to spirit. Thank you for your insights!